The Nazis co-opted a number of ancient sacred symbols that pre-existed not only their political movement, but likely written history itself. The Nazis also used the Roman alphabet, the dastards! Should we abandon our script as well, lest someone be offended?
The manji (“reverse swastika”) is a sacred Buddhist symbol, and it’s widely used on maps in Japan to denote a temple, Buddhist or otherwise. Unsurprisingly, some of the usual whiners demanded that the Japanese stop their ancient practice of using the manji, IN JAPAN. Because it’s offensive to dyslexic tourists of the victim persuasion, apparently. By Slepnir’s seventh leg, but they have some nerve. The minute you get off the plane, you feel you have the right to tell other people how to live In Their Own Country?
And this affected me personally, incidentally. My grandmother was a devout Buddhist. My mother wanted to put the manji on her grave marker. I was only a grade school child at the time, but had to talk my mother down from this. It was not pleasant. Mom knew what the “Nazi swastika” was, but she refused to believe that people would be so stupid to confuse the manji for the “Nazi one”. Sorry, Mom. In a world where some idiot calls the police because of “people are trying to intimidate me by painting swastikas outside my house!” but they were paint squiggles from a road or power crew meant to show where work needed to be done. (And they looked nothing like any kind of swastika.) Well, with people like that, and the rest of us afraid to call them idiots (for obvious reasons), of course people would go nuts over a manji.
Mike, do you remember the famous Nascar(?) noose? That was really a garage door rope pull? Ahem.
Saying that, Black Sun morale patches are kind of sinister. Like, what is this weird slavic 4th Reich thing? Huh. I guess it goes back to Bandera, but still.
Oh, I don’t think Black Sun morale patches are a good idea, for multiple reasons. But I disapprove of the notion that some peoples’ victimhood has primacy over other peoples’ victimhood. And I don’t think we should have laws against “Unit 731 denial” or “Rape of Nanking Revisionism” for example. If someone claims that that stuff didn’t happen, it doesn’t make him a Thought Criminal whose life must be ruined. It makes him An Idiot.
As to the irony of literal neo-Nazis allied with the Zelenskyy regime? Well, the memes just write themselves, don’t they.
Interesting image choice. The earliest appearance I found is 24 November 2018 attached to a tweet in Ukrainian. Somewhere in the Donbas, presumably. It isn't the current fight, or the regular forces. An Azov predecessor? Вчора на передовій ці сестрички, прекрасні дівчатка, зустріли свій День Народження! Давайте привітаємо наших юних Берегинь! (Yesterday at the front, these sisters, attractive girls, celebrated their birthday! Let's congratulate our young (slavic pagan deities)!)
Thanks, Anon. I just pulled it off the internet in a random kind of way. But thanks to you, sourced the original and translation. Presumably Azov affiliate or something like that. BUt hey, I'm no expert, there's seemingly all kinds of weirdness out there.
And what was the insignia of the 45th Infantry Division before it was rebadged and named "The Thunderbird Division"? Yep, evil Native Americans were obviously Nazis who went back in time because they also used the Swastika.
As to the Black Sun/Sonnerad design, Wiki says it originates in early 20th Century Germany. But I've seen that design in Scandinavian artwork from the Viking era. Gee, Wikipedia wrong?
As to the subject matter, so? Why can't a country that is pretty much a single 'race' origin, with some others mixed in but mostly, yeah, one to three interwoven ethnic groups, have pride that they are who they are? After all, the Russians (mostly the western Russians, not the eastern ones) are very happy to be ethnically Russian and discriminate against other Russians who aren't ethnically Rus.
Just because some whackadoodles in Germany screwed things up doesn't make it totally evil. We'd consider Hitler and the Nazis as mostly okay if they kept their evility within their own borders. After all, we gave the CCCP under Stalin a big pass for killing the Ukrainians. And for killing Eastern Poland. And for all their evil after WWII (it's like people have never heard of The Berlin Airlift and why said airlift was required.)
"Oh, they're Nazis!" So? Nazis killing Russians. Things never change.
I mean, you have a totalitarian who imprisons and kills his political opponents and sets up various factions to hurt other factions while playing the nice guy in the world's eye and is the darling of the international press. Am I describing Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev or Putin?
So I'll cut some slack on the cute national socialist chicks as long as they're banging rounds downrange at Russians who promised not to invade the Ukraine after the Ukraine gave up its nukes to Russia. Gee, how many times since then has Russia screwed with the Ukraine? Actually, looking at history, when hasn't Russia screwed with the Ukraine?
The women in the image are twin sisters, Зоряна Дмитрівна і Катерина Дмитрівна. Katerina published the image to her VK account on 20 November 2017: Передова. Донецька (the front. Donestsk Oblast). They seem to have risen to social media prominence after Maidan in 2014. Separately, Katerina posted an image to VK on 22 November 2017 (their 21st birthday) showing both women posting in front of the road sign leading to Avdeevka, with one wearing the Sonnenrad on the plate carrier. The green shoulder patches in this image seem to be Kolovrat symbols, and one of them (Katerina?) is wearing a Kolovrat pendant in a video posted to YouTube in 2016. The sisters are volunteers - but not combatants. As one of the sisters explains (https://www.facebook.com/suspilne.oko/videos/відважні-близнята/1375658365919370/) in a 2019 video, the war in Ukraine (the "ATO" at that time) was not just in the physical world, but it was also informational. A Kolovrat shoulder patch is clearly visible in one of the stills used in this video.
Beans, I hope those two girls are OK. What a terrible slaughterhouse out there. In the meanwhile, the war grinds on and Russia's producing more ammo than all of NATO combined. Apparently they still have factories and stuff. NOt unlike China, when you think of it.
A homework assignment! I find no evidence that either sister was a combatant in the "ATO" and no evidence to support that they were combatants at the time the photo posted at the top of this thread was taken. Ample evidence indicates that they were - and continue to be - "volunteers" raising money on behalf of the Ukrainian armed forces. The closest thing to military service I found is a post on Katerina's VK page: Наш весь екіпаж мав йти на контракт у 79ДШБ ВДВ, але сталось те що сталось... Ті 5 місяців армійського життя залишаться назавжди в моїй історії. Хай ваші купола завжди будуть розгорнуті, а приземлення м"яким! (2 AUG 17), but this didn't work out. On the non-military front, they won first cash prize in a beauty contest for twins in 2018: В результаті, перемогу та головний грошовий приз здобули сестрички Катерина та Зоряна - художниці, волонтерки та просто красуні. Judging from their Telegram channels, both women appear to be alive and well, and Katerina is now Катерина Дмитренко. Returning to the symbology question, on Katerina's VK page someone in 2017 questioned why the women seemed to wear Nazi symbology. She refuted the allegation that the symbology is related to Nazism, and in partial support of her refutation provided this link on the history of the swastika (worn as a pendant by one of the sisters in several images): https://www.oru.org.ua/index.php/bogoznavstvo/oberedi-ta-znaki/174-svastika-svyashtenniy-simvol.html
I hope that all civilians on both sides and in surrounding countries are OK. The horrid war is basically proof that even modern warfare will break down into something that most every culture would recognize. Trench/Siege warfare.
As to Russia producing, yes, they can produce unlike NATO, which most countries gave it all up because Big Daddy Uncle Sam was covering for them since WWII.
But Russia isn't producing new artillery barrels much. Nor tanks. They are reliant on China for more and more of their high-tech weapons and more and more on the Norks for their low-tech equipment.
21 comments:
Israeli women fight, so I suppose Ukrainian women can also?
You all stay warm, be safe and God bless.
The one of the Left is displaying a Nazi symbol---are we not against this?
Linda, note the Black Sun patch.
NW, are you against the Black Sun?
I am.
Sorry, Sonnenrad, just to be clear.
Oh. Ok. Sorry, my knowledge of history isn't what it used to be. The design didn't mean anything to me.
God bless.
The Nazis co-opted a number of ancient sacred symbols that pre-existed not only their political movement, but likely written history itself. The Nazis also used the Roman alphabet, the dastards! Should we abandon our script as well, lest someone be offended?
The manji (“reverse swastika”) is a sacred Buddhist symbol, and it’s widely used on maps in Japan to denote a temple, Buddhist or otherwise. Unsurprisingly, some of the usual whiners demanded that the Japanese stop their ancient practice of using the manji, IN JAPAN. Because it’s offensive to dyslexic tourists of the victim persuasion, apparently. By Slepnir’s seventh leg, but they have some nerve. The minute you get off the plane, you feel you have the right to tell other people how to live In Their Own Country?
And this affected me personally, incidentally. My grandmother was a devout Buddhist. My mother wanted to put the manji on her grave marker. I was only a grade school child at the time, but had to talk my mother down from this. It was not pleasant. Mom knew what the “Nazi swastika” was, but she refused to believe that people would be so stupid to confuse the manji for the “Nazi one”. Sorry, Mom. In a world where some idiot calls the police because of “people are trying to intimidate me by painting swastikas outside my house!” but they were paint squiggles from a road or power crew meant to show where work needed to be done. (And they looked nothing like any kind of swastika.) Well, with people like that, and the rest of us afraid to call them idiots (for obvious reasons), of course people would go nuts over a manji.
And sorry, of course you are! Didn't mean to sound rude.
It's kinda arcane, Linda. You can see the symbol on the floor of Himmler's SS castle, Wewelsburg. Not Christian.
Mike, do you remember the famous Nascar(?) noose? That was really a garage door rope pull? Ahem.
Saying that, Black Sun morale patches are kind of sinister. Like, what is this weird slavic 4th Reich thing? Huh. I guess it goes back to Bandera, but still.
Oh, I don’t think Black Sun morale patches are a good idea, for multiple reasons. But I disapprove of the notion that some peoples’ victimhood has primacy over other peoples’ victimhood. And I don’t think we should have laws against “Unit 731 denial” or “Rape of Nanking Revisionism” for example. If someone claims that that stuff didn’t happen, it doesn’t make him a Thought Criminal whose life must be ruined. It makes him An Idiot.
As to the irony of literal neo-Nazis allied with the Zelenskyy regime? Well, the memes just write themselves, don’t they.
Interesting image choice. The earliest appearance I found is 24 November 2018 attached to a tweet in Ukrainian. Somewhere in the Donbas, presumably. It isn't the current fight, or the regular forces. An Azov predecessor? Вчора на передовій ці сестрички, прекрасні дівчатка, зустріли свій День Народження! Давайте привітаємо наших юних Берегинь! (Yesterday at the front, these sisters, attractive girls, celebrated their birthday! Let's congratulate our young (slavic pagan deities)!)
I totally agree, Mike. Speaking of which, whatever happened to the GloboHomo Trans Brigade in Ukraine? They seem weirdly silent.
Thanks, Anon. I just pulled it off the internet in a random kind of way. But thanks to you, sourced the original and translation. Presumably Azov affiliate or something like that. BUt hey, I'm no expert, there's seemingly all kinds of weirdness out there.
And what was the insignia of the 45th Infantry Division before it was rebadged and named "The Thunderbird Division"? Yep, evil Native Americans were obviously Nazis who went back in time because they also used the Swastika.
As to the Black Sun/Sonnerad design, Wiki says it originates in early 20th Century Germany. But I've seen that design in Scandinavian artwork from the Viking era. Gee, Wikipedia wrong?
As to the subject matter, so? Why can't a country that is pretty much a single 'race' origin, with some others mixed in but mostly, yeah, one to three interwoven ethnic groups, have pride that they are who they are? After all, the Russians (mostly the western Russians, not the eastern ones) are very happy to be ethnically Russian and discriminate against other Russians who aren't ethnically Rus.
Just because some whackadoodles in Germany screwed things up doesn't make it totally evil. We'd consider Hitler and the Nazis as mostly okay if they kept their evility within their own borders. After all, we gave the CCCP under Stalin a big pass for killing the Ukrainians. And for killing Eastern Poland. And for all their evil after WWII (it's like people have never heard of The Berlin Airlift and why said airlift was required.)
"Oh, they're Nazis!" So? Nazis killing Russians. Things never change.
I mean, you have a totalitarian who imprisons and kills his political opponents and sets up various factions to hurt other factions while playing the nice guy in the world's eye and is the darling of the international press. Am I describing Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev or Putin?
So I'll cut some slack on the cute national socialist chicks as long as they're banging rounds downrange at Russians who promised not to invade the Ukraine after the Ukraine gave up its nukes to Russia. Gee, how many times since then has Russia screwed with the Ukraine? Actually, looking at history, when hasn't Russia screwed with the Ukraine?
The women in the image are twin sisters, Зоряна Дмитрівна і Катерина Дмитрівна. Katerina published the image to her VK account on 20 November 2017: Передова. Донецька (the front. Donestsk Oblast). They seem to have risen to social media prominence after Maidan in 2014. Separately, Katerina posted an image to VK on 22 November 2017 (their 21st birthday) showing both women posting in front of the road sign leading to Avdeevka, with one wearing the Sonnenrad on the plate carrier. The green shoulder patches in this image seem to be Kolovrat symbols, and one of them (Katerina?) is wearing a Kolovrat pendant in a video posted to YouTube in 2016. The sisters are volunteers - but not combatants. As one of the sisters explains (https://www.facebook.com/suspilne.oko/videos/відважні-близнята/1375658365919370/) in a 2019 video, the war in Ukraine (the "ATO" at that time) was not just in the physical world, but it was also informational. A Kolovrat shoulder patch is clearly visible in one of the stills used in this video.
Beans, I hope those two girls are OK. What a terrible slaughterhouse out there. In the meanwhile, the war grinds on and Russia's producing more ammo than all of NATO combined. Apparently they still have factories and stuff. NOt unlike China, when you think of it.
Anon, you win the prize for LSPland research! Good work. So she's a pagan sun worshipper? Huh. Maybe just follows the pop band.
Can you find their unit? Thanks in advence.
A homework assignment! I find no evidence that either sister was a combatant in the "ATO" and no evidence to support that they were combatants at the time the photo posted at the top of this thread was taken. Ample evidence indicates that they were - and continue to be - "volunteers" raising money on behalf of the Ukrainian armed forces. The closest thing to military service I found is a post on Katerina's VK page: Наш весь екіпаж мав йти на контракт у 79ДШБ ВДВ, але сталось те що сталось... Ті 5 місяців армійського життя залишаться назавжди в моїй історії.
Хай ваші купола завжди будуть розгорнуті, а приземлення м"яким! (2 AUG 17), but this didn't work out. On the non-military front, they won first cash prize in a beauty contest for twins in 2018: В результаті, перемогу та головний грошовий приз здобули сестрички Катерина та Зоряна - художниці, волонтерки та просто красуні. Judging from their Telegram channels, both women appear to be alive and well, and Katerina is now Катерина Дмитренко. Returning to the symbology question, on Katerina's VK page someone in 2017 questioned why the women seemed to wear Nazi symbology. She refuted the allegation that the symbology is related to Nazism, and in partial support of her refutation provided this link on the history of the swastika (worn as a pendant by one of the sisters in several images): https://www.oru.org.ua/index.php/bogoznavstvo/oberedi-ta-znaki/174-svastika-svyashtenniy-simvol.html
I hope that all civilians on both sides and in surrounding countries are OK. The horrid war is basically proof that even modern warfare will break down into something that most every culture would recognize. Trench/Siege warfare.
As to Russia producing, yes, they can produce unlike NATO, which most countries gave it all up because Big Daddy Uncle Sam was covering for them since WWII.
But Russia isn't producing new artillery barrels much. Nor tanks. They are reliant on China for more and more of their high-tech weapons and more and more on the Norks for their low-tech equipment.
Sad.
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